Skip to content

Which abbreviations that open a name should the vocabulary list: Excm., Mohd., Mt.? #1115

Closed

Description

@derek73

The question

A period-marked word opening a name can be a title (Excm., Engr.), a given name written short (Mohd., Fco.), the start of a surname (Sta. Maria, Mt. Pleasant), or a typing slip (BEUMLER. WEAVER, CAROL). Nothing in the word's shape tells these apart. The proposal is to let the vocabulary decide: list the titles, the abbreviated given names and the abbreviated surname heads we can find, and let each slip read wherever the rules put it.

That is how rules/H6 (a title before a family comma) already works, so H6 keeps its vocabulary-only reading. What changes is its reason and its vocabulary:

Excm. Sr. Lloret Palol, Josep Antoni Carles Joan
  today:        family 'Excm. Lloret Palol', suffix 'Sr.'
  excm listed:  title 'Excm. Sr.', family 'Lloret Palol'

Why H6's reason needs rewriting

decisions/H6 declined H2's shape before a family comma twice. Both reasons have since gone stale:

A scan for what a shape peel would reach (below) finds the reason that still holds. The slot before a family comma also holds given names written short (Md. Abu Shahin, FCPS, MD, Mohamad. S. AlSalhi, …), stray periods (CARL. G, EMILSON, Frances. M Cowan, …) and abbreviated surname heads that are not particles (MT. PLEASANT, JANE). So the proposed H6 Because reads: "a period-marked word there may be a title, a credential, a given name written short, a surname's head or a slip, and its shape tells none of these apart, so only the vocabulary claims it."

What the corpora hold (measured 2026-11-06)

Recipe: every distinct name in the 15 local corpora and the committed tools/differential/corpus*.jsonl whose first word matches [^\W\d_]{2,}\. followed by a space, keeping the words that Lexicon.default() does not list as a title, gated title, particle, given abbreviation or suffix. That gives 560 distinct words in 18,617 names, against dd2650ef.

Listed in a pack, off by default. A pack choice already reads these. They show up here only because the default lexicon lacks them:

  • cs/sk degrees: MUDr. 2,323, JUDr. 846, PhDr. 732, RNDr. 570, MVDr. 393, MgA. 323, PaedDr. 255, PharmDr. 146, MDDr. 84
  • es: Lic. 1,428, Mtro. 333, Mtra. 192, Lcda. 89, Arq. 72, Lcdo. 32
  • vi: ThS. 240

Excluded on purpose: Bc. 8,724 (the US nursing BC), Mst. 104 and Sig. 4. Their recorded reasons should be re-read against these counts.

Unlisted titles (candidates):

  • Engineering: Engr. 70, Eng. 29, Ir. 15, Er. 7
  • Academic: Doc. 308, RSDr. 90, Drs. 15, ThLic./ThMgr./ThDr., Akad. mal./Ak. mal., Prim., Mgtr., Profr., Mtr.
  • Spanish: Licda. 14, Dip. 15 (diputado), Sen. 28, Gral. 12, Cor., Tte., Biól., Act., LAE., LCP., MAP., MVZ.
  • Czech ranks: mjr., plk., npor.
  • Modifiers: Assist. Prof. 19, Ass. Prof. 7, Em. prof.
  • Others: Ven. 19, Ku. 11 (Nepali Kumari), Adv., RR. (Javanese Raden Rara), med., Excm./Excma. (CLDR)
  • Dipl. 19 as a word of its own (Dipl. Ing., Dipl. Arch.). The hyphenated Dipl.-Ing. is already a de academic word.

Given names written short (candidates for a given reading with same_as, the shape Chas. takes since #789):

  • Muhammad: Mo. 44, Mohd. 37, Moh. 28, Muh. 26, Moch. 11, Mhd. 5, Ach. 5
  • Others: Fco. 7 (Francisco), Sk. 18 / Sh. 5 (Sheikh), Kh., Th., Ph., Jan.

The Muhammad forms have no credential reading, so they don't run into what kept md from taking a given reading (decisions/C3, the md decline). Each of them reads as a title by H2's shape today, wherever it opens a name: Mohd. Ali Hassan → title 'Mohd.'. Md. itself stays an accepted cost (decisions/indic-honorifics, #853). Whether these new readings change that is a question for this issue.

Surname heads (candidates for particles): Mt. (MT. PLEASANT). The search for more is part of the work.

Slips (Mohammed., Abdullah., BEUMLER.): not listed. They read wherever the rules put them.

Proposed work

  1. Amend rules/H6's Because and add a decisions/H6 entry recording that Should Juan Sta. Maria read family Sta. Maria? Today it reads middle Sta., family Maria #725 removed Xyz. née Jones, John keeps née Jones in the family where Smith née Jones, John reads maiden Jones: should a word before a family comma count as a surname for the maiden marker? #710's cost, and the stated reason that replaces it. Date or drop the CLDR line.
  2. Batches by class, each with bearer counts (tools/name_usage.py --boxes, tools/vocab/word_report.py --rank), as Phase 2: derive ambiguity from clashing readings and extend the gate to every reading kind #752's phase 2 batches ran:
    • the Muhammad abbreviations and other given names written short
    • engineering and academic titles
    • Spanish titles not yet in es.toml
    • the remaining titles and the modifiers
    • Mt. and any other surname heads found
  3. Decide, for each pack-only word, whether it should be on by default. For example, MUDr. is not borne as a name anywhere, so it may not need a Czech choice.

Open questions

  • Which pack-only degrees should be on by default?
  • Do Bc., Mst. and Sig. keep their exclusions in light of these counts?
  • C1: many names this reaches are given-first names whose comma sets off a credential C1 doesn't know (Ing. Jitka Červenková, MScM, Ns. Andan Firmansyah., S.Kep., M.Kep.). Is listing those post-nominals part of this, or its own issue?

Activity

  1. self-assigned this
    on Nov 6, 2026
  2. derek73 commented on Nov 6, 2026

    @derek73
    OwnerAuthor

    The Dipl. degrees, looked at more closely: the spaced Dipl. Ing. that the list above names is the smaller part of the problem.

    Where Dipl lands today (measured 2026-11-06)

    Recipe: every distinct name in the 15 local corpora and the committed tools/differential/corpus*.jsonl whose text holds dipl, case-insensitive, sorted by which field of parse() holds it. That is 234 names, against dd2650ef: title 91, given 61, family 42 (nearly all the surname DIPLACIDI), suffix 31, middle 9.

    The given bucket is where the misreads are. Leaving out the given names Diplal/Diplina and the Diploma … course titles, about 35 names read a Diplom degree as the given name. Behind a comma, the name is then reversed around it:

    Anselm Crombach, Dipl.-Psych.        → given 'Dipl.-Psych.', family 'Anselm Crombach'   (19 ctgov names written so)
    Michael Lotter, Dipl.-Phys.          → given 'Dipl.-Phys.', family 'Michael Lotter'
    Dipl.-Kfm. Dalimil Ospalý            → given 'Dipl.-Kfm.', middle 'Dalimil'
    Dipl.-Soz. Eva Kubátová              → given 'Dipl.-Soz.'
    Dipl.Ing. Jan Heřmanský              → given 'Dipl.Ing.'
    

    Also written so: -Pol., -Kffr., -Inf., -Ing.FH, -Biophys, -Optom.

    Two causes:

    1. Only dipl.-ing is listed (de.toml, academic). The others aren't, and a hyphenated word can't take rules/H2's shape, which needs letters and a single trailing period. So Dipl.-Psych. is a title nowhere, while the spaced Dipl. Psych. reads as one wherever H2 or the comma path's title read reaches it (Bettina Viereck, Dipl. Psych. → title 'Dipl. Psych.').
    2. The listed word matches only its own spelling. dipl.-ing doesn't match Dipl.Ing. (glued), Dipl Ing or Dipl. Ing., and before a family comma, where H6 accepts listed words only, the spaced form stays in the family (Dipl. Ing. Kurschatke, Walter → family 'Dipl. Ing. Kurschatke'). Trailing, even the listed spelling is missed: Walter Kurschatke Dipl.-Ing. → family 'Dipl.-Ing.', where Walter Kurschatke Prof. reads title 'Prof.' (rules/H5).

    Proposal

    • List the Diplom degrees, German and Czech, each with its expands: dipl.-ing, -psych, -kfm/-kffr, -phys, -pol, -soz, -inf, -biol/-biophys, -optom, and Czech dipl. um. (30 names, read as a title today where a comma sets it off).

    • Match a listed word written in parts across its separators. A listed spelling with an internal separator (dipl.-ing) matches its parts joined by a period, a hyphen, a space or nothing: Dipl.-Ing., Dipl.Ing., Dipl. Ing., Dipl Ing. A word listed as one part never qualifies.

      This is not rules/S12 (a credential split across a space) moved to the front of the name. S12 joins the letters of any two short words and looks the result up, a guess that its count then settles. Before a name, that guess would read Mr S Smith as the title Mrs, since a title followed by an initial is the commonest shape there is. Matching a listed word's own parts needs no count and makes no report.

    • The trailing hyphenated title: find why H5 misses Dipl.-Ing. at the end of a name, and whether any listed hyphenated title is read there today.

    Periodless spellings are rare: 3 names (Aleksandra Vuckovic, Dipl Ing MSc PhD, Bettina Viereck, Dipl-Psych, Helmut Teschler, Prof. Dr. dipl Ing), all ctgov, all after the name, all reversed. The separator match covers them once the degrees are listed. Whether that is reached depends on what rules/C1 (the family-comma decision) asks of a part after a comma.

  3. derek73 commented on Nov 6, 2026

    @derek73
    OwnerAuthor

    Correction to the issue body: the two CLDR names (Excm. Sr. Lloret Palol II, … and Excma. Dra. Van Dalen Hoogeveen II, …) did not enter the CLDR corpus with #735. They have been in corpus_cldr.jsonl since #654 (2026-10-12), five days before #701, and they read the same way at #701's own commit. So the 2026-10-17 entry's "every CLDR case is a listed title" did not hold even when it was written. decisions/H6's 2026-11-06 entry in #1117 records it that way.

  4. added this to the 3.0 milestone on Nov 7, 2026
  5. derek73 commented on Nov 7, 2026

    @derek73
    OwnerAuthor

    Closing: the work this issue proposed has shipped. rules/H6's Because and its decisions entry (#1117); the Muhammad and other given-name abbreviations (#1117); the title batches (#1119); the pack titles on by default (#1121); the Diplom degrees (#1123); and the trailing joined and hyphenated titles (#1116, #1125). What's left moves to new issues:

    The C1 open question, post-nominals after a comma that C1 doesn't know (MScM, S.Kep.), is #969's and #998's.

Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment

Metadata

Metadata

Assignees

Labels

designvocabularyPer-word vocabulary model and language packs

Projects

No projects

    Milestone

    Relationships

    None yet

    Development

    No branches or pull requests

    Issue actions